If the Globe Is Cooling Can it Still Be Warming?

There is some, to me at least, mind boggling double talk in this article

 http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aU.evtnk6DPo&refer=worldwide

Some choice quotes:

"`Those natural climate [cooling] variations could be stronger than the global-warming trend over the next 10-year period,'' Wood said in an interview. ``Without knowing that, you might erroneously think there's no global warming going on.'"

"'If we don't experience warming over the next 10 years, it doesn't mean that greenhouse-gas warming is not with us,'' Keenlyside said in an interview. ``There can be natural fluctuations that may mask climate change in the short term.'"

Maybe the quotes were taken out of context in the article. If not, these quotes smack of cultish thinking where one's brain is conditioned to believe that two directly opposite things can be true at the same time. To me I'm reading this as that he's saying "If we cool over the next 10 years, but impose current trends on top of it, you'll see that we should have cooled even more and therefore it's still warming." It's almost like he's saying if the average temperate is 40c in 2015, it's really 50c adjusted for global warming. He also says that if you run the current model long enough, we'll come out of the cold spell even warmer. I wonder if the model takes the future cooling trends into effect.

I guess it's possible, but it seems like a stretch. Only time will tell. Please don't take this as me saying that all "global warming" or climate change is a hoax. I do think however that is our duty to be discerning when reading things on this subject as it's controversial.

 Let's see...we have about 100 years of data to base our global warming assertions on.  Ten years may represent natural fluctuations and not be an indication that "greenhouse gas warming is not with us".  However, 100 years in comparison to billions is an accurate window to make assertions from. 

Its like meeting a guy for 2 seconds and trying to write his life story.

This whole thing is a freakin' myth designed to slow down the haves so the have-nots can catch up.  Global socialization just waiting for a dictator to take the wheel.  Oh well...Al Gore's getting paid.

I blame Kris Kross for all this 'warming it up' talk.

 Yeah, we may see another ice age... or we'll just wait around until the next 5 mile wide meteor hits us and we start from scratch again (saw an interesting thing on Discovery Channel that basically said in the billyuns and billyuns of years Earth has been around the entire planet has been tore up 6 times by meteors that basically killed everything except a few microcells of life).

That said, I think there are enough signs that alternative energy and a more sustainable attitude have some positive socio-economic benefits ... so why don't you stop your whinin' and just let it take hold. 

mikko:

That said, I think there are enough signs that alternative energy and a more sustainable attitude have some positive socio-economic benefits ... so why don't you stop your whinin' and just let it take hold. 

I'll keep whining as long as our legislators are subsidizing alternative energy that doesn't do what they say it does.  Ethanol would not be produced if it weren't subsidized in the name of global warming.  It's just one example where the "solution" to our energy problems isn't a solution at all.  It's driving up the cost of food and oil, it takes more energy to produce than it produces itself, and we'd have to use MN's entire acreage to produce enough of it to fuel just our state.  Our energy policy is fucking retarded and our leaders need to start taking into account how their policies will affect our economy.  I have to say I always laugh when I read an article about the US urging OPEC to increase production to lower the price of oil while we sit on our reserves and our legislature won't allow us to get at the oil we have on our land.  Who knows how different things would be if we would have started drilling for the oil that we know we have a decade ago.  It's time to start drilling...alternative energy sources will be discovered over time and the public will be thrilled to purchase it when it's as affordable as oil.  Global warming is a hoax, it's complete bullshit and it's paving the way for our government to grab more power.  Seriously, our legislature is going to tell us what light bulbs we can buy now??  Gimme a fuckin' break.

Agreed. Ethanol sucks.

Still, I love it when people just sit back and believe we don't need to be continuously improving or doing anything... and then get outraged when gas gets to $4 a gallon.

mikko:

Agreed. Ethanol sucks.

Still, I love it when people just sit back and believe we don't need to be continuously improving or doing anything... and then get outraged when gas gets to $4 a gallon.

I know...it's annoying.  All of these issues could have been avoided....we've pretty much set ourselves up for these problems through bad legislation.  It's only going to get worse if we keep up with the stupid energy policy...the sad thing is when prices on oil and utilities go up again (and they will, trust me) the average Joe will be blaming the oil companies and the utilities and not Congress.  In my eyes, there's really nothing the oil companies can do and not be criticized.  If they make a profit, it's clearly because they're price gouging and screwing over the American people.  If they don't make a profit, I'm certain they'd be scolded for screwing over their investors...catch 22.

Newman:

mikko:

Agreed. Ethanol sucks.

Still, I love it when people just sit back and believe we don't need to be continuously improving or doing anything... and then get outraged when gas gets to $4 a gallon.

 

I know...it's annoying.  All of these issues could have been avoided....we've pretty much set ourselves up for these problems through bad legislation. 

I disagree with the word I underlined, we have set ourselves up for this by our poor decision making.  Lack of public transportation usuage, long commutes, NASCAR (THROW THAT IN FOR PERSONAL REASONS), etc......lead us to consume much of the worlds oil when compared to other countries.  Europe would love to have our gas prices versus their $9/gallon.  We chose as Americans to live a wasteful life styel and now it is coming back to to smack us in the face.   Then again it's through mistakes that people learn.

 It's only going to get worse if we keep up with the stupid energy policy...the sad thing is when prices on oil and utilities go up again (and they will, trust me) the average Joe will be blaming the oil companies and the utilities and not Congress. 

When honestly they should have blamed themselves for making poor decisions.  Where is your self accountability Mr. Republican? 

In my eyes, there's really nothing the oil companies can do and not be criticized.  If they make a profit, it's clearly because they're price gouging and screwing over the American people.  If they don't make a profit, I'm certain they'd be scolded for screwing over their investors...catch 22.

It is not the oil companies fault nor the governments but our societies fault.  Which is okay, all populations come together at times a screw things up pretty badly but that is how we learn.  This is how we will learn to be concious about our wastefulness and consumption.  We will no longer make stupid decisions like drive a Hummer from Blaine to MPLS everyday for a commute while our wife drives her car to Stillwater. etc.....

We will again start to work in the same towns that we live in and our kids go to school in and thus improve our sense of communities.

This will be the phoenix that will rise from the flames.

I think???

anybody else ever see the documentary Who Killed the Electric Car?

 Yes, cool and thought provoking.

 I think no matter what happens to the climate someone is going to spin in a way that its linked to global warming. To me, that just buries the consensus in propaganda to the point that if we are screwing up the world with polution, we wont take it seriously...

"...all populations come together at times a screw things up pretty badly but that is how we learn.  This is how we will learn to be concious about our wastefulness and consumption.  We will no longer make stupid decisions like drive a Hummer from Blaine to MPLS everyday for a commute while our wife drives her car to Stillwater. etc....."

Yep. Instead we will learn that tree hugging hippie douchebags should have been ignored from the start. Then, we will start drilling for oil so we can drive H10's to work each day without having to worry about the cost of fuel.

The Desolate One:

"...all populations come together at times a screw things up pretty badly but that is how we learn.  This is how we will learn to be concious about our wastefulness and consumption.  We will no longer make stupid decisions like drive a Hummer from Blaine to MPLS everyday for a commute while our wife drives her car to Stillwater. etc....."

 

Yep. Instead we will learn that tree hugging hippie douchebags should have been ignored from the start. Then, we will start drilling for oil so we can drive H10's to work each day without having to worry about the cost of fuel.

Geico, so easy even the Desolate One can do it.

 I think finding alternative energy sources is critical.  At this point, though, we need oil to function.  It seems to me that by not drilling we're taking a huge, unnecessary gamble.  We're about a Saudi regime change away from opec completely having us by the sack.  Why couldn't they just turn off the tap?  In a war of attrition between us and them, we would lose.  Financially they could ride it out longer than we could.  I think gas is under fifty cents a gallon in Iran.  Our economy would grind to a halt FAST.  Why don't we have a contingency plan in case we can't find realistic alternative energy for twenty more years?  We should be disrupting some freakin' moose right now, today.

 Most of our gas actually comes from Canada and that is where the issue is.  Just kidding.

GG is right, actually do look up how many trillions of dollars Saudi Arabia has invested in our economy.

It's ridiculous.

However, I still think drilling in Alaska would be less proactive then looking for other sources of energy.

Where there is a will there is a way but I just don't think the will is strong enough at this point. 

I do think it is more of a gamble then drilling but the pay off is much higher.  It's like having 2 stocks, one that will have a limited payoff and only a slightly high risk, and then another that has more risk but the payoff is remarkable.

or we can wait around and wait for the technology to come out of Europe and India.

Todzilla:

However, I still think drilling in Alaska would be less proactive then looking for other sources of energy.

I just don't get why it has to be "either or" with you.  Can we not drill AND research alternatives?

Scobbs:

Todzilla:

However, I still think drilling in Alaska would be less proactive then looking for other sources of energy.

 

 

I just don't get why it has to be "either or" with you.  Can we not drill AND research alternatives?

Right now things aren't that bad, even at $5 gallon they won't be that bad.  Will people bitch and moan and act like they can not survive etc.. Yeah but they will adapt through lifestyle change and things will settle.  WIll this be tough for us?  Hell yeah but you have to agree that Americans have had it pretty good for years, we have become comfortable even.  If we know anything about Capitalism, we know that it is founded on a competitive nature, and we have lost that edge that made us the super power we now consider ourselves.

If you were making money on cigarettes and then were told that they were going to be illegal.  Would you move faster to create a new business plan fro your shop if you had:

A. 3 years

B. 30 years

Either way you would reach the same conclusion, being  a new business plan for your shop but A would make it happen faster.  You would have less drive with B.Especially if you are 40, you wouldn't do a damn thing because you wouldn't see it in your lifetime.

Drilling in Alaska takes away that sense of urgency and get's us where we need to be faster than supplying us with a temporary fix.  It is inevistable that we need an alternative.  What better time than now to make that happen?

Todzilla:

Right now things aren't that bad, even at $5 gallon they won't be that bad.

You're really struggling with this third world starvation factor aren't you, Todd? 

G.G.:

Todzilla:

Right now things aren't that bad, even at $5 gallon they won't be that bad.

 

You're really struggling with this third world starvation factor aren't you, Todd? 

So now it's up to the government to solve the worlds problems.

GG you damn liberal.

Todzilla:

Right now things aren't that bad, even at $5 gallon they won't be that bad.

In other words, "Fuck the poor and underdeveloped countries and their starvation.  I wanna feel good about saving the caribou."

 Very progressive and humanitarian approach you've got there. 

And round and around we go on the GG spin mobile.

So, like Scobbs, you are saying that drilling in Alaska is going to end starvation?

I will pull a little spin off that comment and lay it out plainly. 

What will you are saying is that drilling in Alaska is the only way to aid in this crisis.

You are aware that the rising price of fuel is only part of the problem right?

If I can remember right, back a few years ago when gas prices were lower people were still starving.

You amaze me sometimes.

Just kidding