Who sucks at booking acts and who rocks?

G.G.:

Bonzo:

 All I do is book and promote shows. Nothing more, never have done anything more.  Wait.  I thought a promoter was worth spending money with because they shopped your band for you to their "established contacts".  Now you're saying you don't do that?

what could have been a constructive thread to BASHING a hard working local band.   Technically, you're the one getting bashed.  DE is merely receiving an honest critique which was what you were looking for when you started the thread.

Your opinion is yours and should be respected but does this really do any of us any good?  No more or less good than you do for local bands.  

 

 

 We do shop bands we work with to established contacts. As well as fill their calendar with shows. We do not charge bands anything but 10 percent. Unless they want us to push them more intensly. And then it takes more of our time. But we still don't ask for much. And we can only get for a band what a venue, record label, tv,or radio station is willing to give based on the quality of the music. If you have success booking rooms on your own then do it. If you have success pushing your record on your own then do it. It dosen't make a difference to me.I will say that after three years of doing this Kinetic has yet to PROFIT from any of it. The expenses involved in all of this is far more than the fiscal return, but we plug along believing in the strength of the scene and believing in the bands that have worked hard for that cause. And we will continue as long as we still have a market.  What we have always done the most of is book shows, and provide bands with the promotional materials to push themselves for that show. Over time we have established WORKING contacts with different media outlets, record labels and the like. Bands involved with Kinetic have access to those things if they choose to have that access. Many of the bands can do it by themselves and just choose to play a show or two with us. If that is the case, great. Other bands have committed to us on a grander scale and we work harder for them for that reason. In the end our goal is a unified scene one that works with eachother to become as big as possible. Whatever the reasoning we work HARD for local music.  

 Cool.  I respect that. 

*standing down*

 Poor Bonzo.... He just love DE so much...

The Drizzle:

 Poor Bonzo.... He just love DE so much...

 WHA...HAHAHA...

WTF...

Bonzo is like the love child of Roadie Ron & Cole but more eloquent than either of them.

Why do you guys keep talking about "talent" in the context of getting signed?  Have you listened to the radio in the last few years?  My ass makes better music than what's played on 93X.

RockinChica78:

Bonzo is like the love child of Roadie Ron & Cole but more eloquent than either of them.

Why do you guys keep talking about "talent" in the context of getting signed?  Have you listened to the radio in the last few years?  My ass makes better music than what's played on 93X.

 Hell's yeah.  Preach it, sista.

 Oh what ever happened to roadie ron, and cole for that matter. One mans love for drift effect has turned him into Public Enemy # 1 on this board, lol

The Drizzle:

Oh what ever happened to roadie ron, and cole for that matter.

I'm guessing Cole realized that spending time here was a waste of his time. FWIW I see the way Cole was treated here as an example of the mother eating her young. We could have collectively mentored a member of the younger generation who wanted to make the scene a better place, but no..... he was too easy to pick on.

Anyone who has met Cole knows he is a nice guy, but his style didn't really work on the interwebz.

The only criticism I'd have for Kinetic is being as single-genre-fied as they have been.  I could definitely see some benefits for Kinetic by diversifying their catalogue in order to make themselves a little more trend-recession proof.

Beyond that, they do a good job of getting the word out there.  They ain't no Rhymesayers, but they're trying.  It's just a bummer that the genre they chose (Nu Metal / Pop Punk / anything played on 93X released post-2001) is already on its way out, hence my recommendation.

But what do I know... I'm just a musician who's been doing his own bills / promotion work for 6 years.

Folkerts:

But what do I know... I'm just a musician who's been doing his own bills / promotion work for 6 years.

Off of this can a band really be considered "hard working" if they can't/won't complete the simple task of booking their own shows?

What's this hard work you're referring to Charles? I'm honestly curious. By their own admission the DE guys haven't released anything new in a year and a half. Have they been touring? Sorry, I'm not a great Drift Effect mind.

I went to a Kinetic show once paid the $8 cover charge due to some friends playing the show but if I was just a casual fan of any of the groups I likely would have spent that money elsewhere. I assume however that the cost of making flyers was being passed on directly to the consumer. Especially, considering that on any other night sans Kinetic music it would have been $5.

I did happen to look through a couple of weeklies after that show and there was no 1/4 page ad promoting the show, and I couldn't recall seeing any flyers at my local music emporium either.

Of course I'm not "in the action" mucking it up with the muckity mucks.

Just sayin'  

aside: All the dudes in UFA have AARP. Everyone knows that.

 I completely agree.

Kinetic is cute if anything but highly unnecessary. 

I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, that the natural order of things is to play shows and have a good time until the demand for your performances becomes so overwelming that you can't juggle all the show you are being asked to play and you are in a place to pay someone (a professional) to manage that aspect for you.

I know bands that play up to 8 shows a month and don't have a booking agent, they are also a cover band so there is serious price negotiating going on here and lots of travel. 

Getting involved with Kinetic at this stage in DE's career, in my opinion, is no different than that band that's 6 shows deep into playing the uptown and the garage making themselve laminate passes for themselves and their girlfirends.

What next?  Chrome up an old piece of vinyl, and make a large mock platinum record for your CD?  A Rider?  Get a couple friends to play security?  Send yourselves to rehab?

Todd o the Mornin':

Kinetic is cute if anything but highly unnecessary. 

How are they any different than Somino?

Mr. F****n' Hockey:

can a band really be considered "hard working" if they can't/won't complete the simple task of booking their own shows?

Oh absolutely.

I found myself dozens of times wishing I had someone I could rely on to handle all of the booking / promotional aspects of the band.  And, honestly, I wouldn't have been able to book and promote the shows & events I did without having flown under the Adrenaline Productions wing early on.

Booking and promoting your own shows certainly builds contacts and character... but it can be one hell of a stress inducer if you're as anxious a guy as I am.  Add on the "real life" equasion... and sometimes fitting it all in is difficult.

I suppose it's a quesiton of your or anyone else's "hard working" definition.  Some people are really hard working at creating great shows and tours yet can lack in kicking out a steady stream of great music.  Others, kick out great music but can't book a show that draws to save their life.

I'd find it safe to wager that the DIY musicians who are able to balance both well (or "all three" or "four" well... if you count real-life / dayjob / childcare responsibilities) are in an extrememe minority.

There is a place for booking / promo companies like Kinetic.  And a number of them are well worth the $$ investment (which really isn't much, as there's usually no up-front cost... just a split of the cut). 

I think a lot of people on this board have issues with Kinetic primarily due to the bands they choose to represent.  Don't like the bands... hate those promoting them, right?  Makes sense... no real blame there.

I mean really... I don't see anyone ripping on Twin Tone, Rhymsayers, Sue McLean, Jam Productions, etc... think they started out any different?  Better music catalogue?  Maybe... but we all have to start somewhere.

G.G.:

Todd o the Mornin':

Kinetic is cute if anything but highly unnecessary. 

 

How are they any different than Somino?

 

 As far as I know Somino is also a collective (like blue worm) where they do the whole costco thing and by merch in bulk to save money. also (in my opinion) they have really talented bands (I cant say that for FFF since i have not seen them yet) but Absent I sounds great, AVU is getting looked at by label and Staja had a great run. but i guess i could be wrong, and correct me if i am

Somnio is different because Lance did not take a cut of any of our profits.  He did it solely as a selfless venture to promote bands he felt had potential.  Among other things, he created promotional material, booked us higher-caliber shows, fronted the money to make our EP, created and produced merchandise, designed our Myspace, got us in contact with Colt Leeb/Steve Hodge, etc.  At every show, he was adamant about us cross-promoting with the other bands on Somnio, because it was all about providing the resources to create awareness.

Folkerts:

I don't see anyone ripping on Twin Tone, Rhymsayers, Sue McLean, Jam Productions, etc...

You can throw any or all of these groups into the mix.  All I'm trying to do is figure out what these people do for bands that bands can't do for themselves.  Maybe its great if you're trying to book a tour because they know people and can hook you up in other areas.  Maybe its great if you're really trying to "shop" your shit to labels (whatever that means) because they know who to get the music to.  (Somehow, I suspect most of these guys would throw it in the mail to the same people we'd mail them to and have no real "connections".)

Otherwise, I think they're for bands who don't know any better or are really lazy.

Just my opinion.

We did a few shows that Somnio took the lead on and also some that Kinetic took the lead on.  I found Charles to be one very nice fella but a little green and Lance seemed a lot more stable and mature in life and in music. 

I could not see Lance on this board asking for reviews only to  try and defend his bands honor, his business on this board because he may not have agreed with a review or two.  He also wouldn't argue peoples criticism with ky words like "label or National Interest".

The business concept is the same but one, as having experienced working with both, is run with a lot more professionalism than the other.

That's not Charle's fault. like I said, he's a nice guy, he just isn't as seasoned in what he's doing and fueling his business with emotion not experience.

Purely an opinion

G.G.:

Folkerts:

I don't see anyone ripping on Twin Tone, Rhymsayers, Sue McLean, Jam Productions, etc...

 

You can throw any or all of these groups into the mix.  All I'm trying to do is figure out what these people do for bands that bands can't do for themselves.  Maybe its great if you're trying to book a tour because they know people and can hook you up in other areas.  Maybe its great if you're really trying to "shop" your shit to labels (whatever that means) because they know who to get the music to.  (Somehow, I suspect most of these guys would throw it in the mail to the same people we'd mail them to and have no real "connections".)

Otherwise, I think they're for bands who don't know any better or are really lazy.

Just my opinion.

You're right, you have to offer the band more than a person who can take things off their plate for them, because anyone can do that. 

You have to offer your band more, through experience.  A lot of us have played everywhere and our connections, though we see them as friends. some young kid and his high school bands would love to have. 

I know it would have been nice to have someone that took what they learned from mistakes they made as a bend and help us not to make those same mistakes.  Like where to save money on merch, what sells what doesn't, where can I gett a CD done cheaply but well.  Whos are some of ripoff artists  I should never deal with?

This is what seperates some from others.  Like any business sector, some are doing a better job than others.

A hardy handshake to my former arch enemy on this board...

Todd o the Mornin':

G.G.:

Folkerts:

I don't see anyone ripping on Twin Tone, Rhymsayers, Sue McLean, Jam Productions, etc...

 

You can throw any or all of these groups into the mix.  All I'm trying to do is figure out what these people do for bands that bands can't do for themselves.  Maybe its great if you're trying to book a tour because they know people and can hook you up in other areas.  Maybe its great if you're really trying to "shop" your shit to labels (whatever that means) because they know who to get the music to.  (Somehow, I suspect most of these guys would throw it in the mail to the same people we'd mail them to and have no real "connections".)

Otherwise, I think they're for bands who don't know any better or are really lazy.

Just my opinion.

 

You're right, you have to offer the band more than a person who can take things off their plate for them, because anyone can do that. 

You have to offer your band more, through experience.  A lot of us have played everywhere and our connections, though we see them as friends. some young kid and his high school bands would love to have. 

I know it would have been nice to have someone that took what they learned from mistakes they made as a bend and help us not to make those same mistakes.  Like where to save money on merch, what sells what doesn't, where can I gett a CD done cheaply but well.  Whos are some of ripoff artists  I should never deal with?

This is what seperates some from others.  Like any business sector, some are doing a better job than others.

 

I guess as far as local connections go, I can sorta see that point if you're brand new.  Sometimes noobs ask other bands for info or advice and the bands will answer really vaguely.  Some guys tend to hoard knowledge and justify it by saying its part of "paying your dues".  (I think its usually a power trip.)  But, inevitably if you get out there and start meeting people, you can network with who you need to.  Many bands are cool enough to at least point you in a direction and this town just isn't that big.

As far as where to get discs done, record etc...all these answers can be found on boards just like this one.

G.G.:

All I'm trying to do is figure out what these people do for bands that bands can't do for themselves.

The answer to you